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	<title>Comments on: That Old &#8220;Authentic&#8221; Debate</title>
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	<link>http://www.gobblin.net/2009/05/05/that-old-authentic-debate/</link>
	<description>Returning to Labyrinth since 2007!</description>
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		<title>By: Good reads from 2009 &#171; MangaBlog</title>
		<link>http://www.gobblin.net/2009/05/05/that-old-authentic-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-7162</link>
		<dc:creator>Good reads from 2009 &#171; MangaBlog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 19:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gobblin.net/?p=659#comment-7162</guid>
		<description>[...] Manga Village team, Kate Dacey, and Jake Forbes on the question of OEL [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Manga Village team, Kate Dacey, and Jake Forbes on the question of OEL [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jake Forbes</title>
		<link>http://www.gobblin.net/2009/05/05/that-old-authentic-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-3314</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake Forbes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 01:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gobblin.net/?p=659#comment-3314</guid>
		<description>Rachel,
I totally agree with what you&#039;re saying about the &quot;average manga series&quot; longevity being a total misconception based on western countries being able to cherry pick. But I do think that when the manga boom really hit America, the fact that these works could be consumed in big lengthy chunks without the 32 pages a month wait that comics consumers were used to is what brought in new readership. Of course, localizing 200 page books and creating them with new artists from scratch are obviously two very different ballgames...

And I completely agree with your webcomic reasoning. That&#039;s absolutely the way the vetting ground of the future (and present!) as comics move foreward. I don&#039;t think there&#039;s a need to come up with a &quot;webcomics&quot; in print term, as it probably won&#039;t be long before digitally distributed comics is the norm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rachel,<br />
I totally agree with what you&#8217;re saying about the &#8220;average manga series&#8221; longevity being a total misconception based on western countries being able to cherry pick. But I do think that when the manga boom really hit America, the fact that these works could be consumed in big lengthy chunks without the 32 pages a month wait that comics consumers were used to is what brought in new readership. Of course, localizing 200 page books and creating them with new artists from scratch are obviously two very different ballgames&#8230;</p>
<p>And I completely agree with your webcomic reasoning. That&#8217;s absolutely the way the vetting ground of the future (and present!) as comics move foreward. I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s a need to come up with a &#8220;webcomics&#8221; in print term, as it probably won&#8217;t be long before digitally distributed comics is the norm.</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel Keslensky - Last Res0rt</title>
		<link>http://www.gobblin.net/2009/05/05/that-old-authentic-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-3308</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel Keslensky - Last Res0rt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 19:26:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gobblin.net/?p=659#comment-3308</guid>
		<description>Surely there&#039;s more to the appeal of manga than just its sheer longevity. The only thing close to a western equivalent of that is in webcomics, where you can have:

*A single author, or at least a consistent team (check)
*Multiple volumes, or at least the ability to become multiple volumes (check)
*A cheap means of distribution before the print version that only allows the cream to float to the top (?!) 

There is a DISTINCT difference between anything made OEL / Western and the Manga market -- Anything that manages to make it across the ocean and few a few translation barriers has to be good. We don&#039;t see all the crap that gets made IN Japan, just all the crap that gets OUT. We expect long volumes because by the time a work &quot;escapes&quot;, it&#039;s already got several years of storytelling under its belt for everyone else to catch up on.  

Likewise, in webcomics, you don&#039;t get into print without not only drawing a lot, but also surviving for that long online without succumbing to the stresses involved while building up a large enough fanbase to support yourself. It&#039;s not a perfect match -- it takes a lot longer to produce those multi-volume stories than it looks, and readers might get fed up with how much &quot;slower&quot; OEL / webcomics take to make compared to premade manga that&#039;s just waiting to be translated by comparison -- but there are distinctions. 

I&#039;m still struggling to find a good word for &quot;webcomics in print&quot; that don&#039;t quite fall under western or manga -- &quot;indie&quot; is closest, but it&#039;s no cigar -- but if you&#039;re going to going to tell me that readers are looking for longevity vs. merely good long-form storytelling... well, I think you&#039;re missing the difference between what&#039;s actually left Japan vs. what&#039;s still there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surely there&#8217;s more to the appeal of manga than just its sheer longevity. The only thing close to a western equivalent of that is in webcomics, where you can have:</p>
<p>*A single author, or at least a consistent team (check)<br />
*Multiple volumes, or at least the ability to become multiple volumes (check)<br />
*A cheap means of distribution before the print version that only allows the cream to float to the top (?!) </p>
<p>There is a DISTINCT difference between anything made OEL / Western and the Manga market &#8212; Anything that manages to make it across the ocean and few a few translation barriers has to be good. We don&#8217;t see all the crap that gets made IN Japan, just all the crap that gets OUT. We expect long volumes because by the time a work &#8220;escapes&#8221;, it&#8217;s already got several years of storytelling under its belt for everyone else to catch up on.  </p>
<p>Likewise, in webcomics, you don&#8217;t get into print without not only drawing a lot, but also surviving for that long online without succumbing to the stresses involved while building up a large enough fanbase to support yourself. It&#8217;s not a perfect match &#8212; it takes a lot longer to produce those multi-volume stories than it looks, and readers might get fed up with how much &#8220;slower&#8221; OEL / webcomics take to make compared to premade manga that&#8217;s just waiting to be translated by comparison &#8212; but there are distinctions. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m still struggling to find a good word for &#8220;webcomics in print&#8221; that don&#8217;t quite fall under western or manga &#8212; &#8220;indie&#8221; is closest, but it&#8217;s no cigar &#8212; but if you&#8217;re going to going to tell me that readers are looking for longevity vs. merely good long-form storytelling&#8230; well, I think you&#8217;re missing the difference between what&#8217;s actually left Japan vs. what&#8217;s still there.</p>
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		<title>By: Connie</title>
		<link>http://www.gobblin.net/2009/05/05/that-old-authentic-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-3299</link>
		<dc:creator>Connie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 19:14:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gobblin.net/?p=659#comment-3299</guid>
		<description>I always wondered if OEL came from the AoD forums, because I can&#039;t recall any publisher ever labeling their books like that (maybe they do now though, I don&#039;t know).  I remember there being some debate even over that term when Tokyopop started publishing a German series, so a few people started using MIC, or Manga-Inspired Comic.  I was always a little glad the additional nitpick never caught on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always wondered if OEL came from the AoD forums, because I can&#8217;t recall any publisher ever labeling their books like that (maybe they do now though, I don&#8217;t know).  I remember there being some debate even over that term when Tokyopop started publishing a German series, so a few people started using MIC, or Manga-Inspired Comic.  I was always a little glad the additional nitpick never caught on.</p>
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		<title>By: laurie</title>
		<link>http://www.gobblin.net/2009/05/05/that-old-authentic-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-3292</link>
		<dc:creator>laurie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 14:22:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gobblin.net/?p=659#comment-3292</guid>
		<description>yeah, like i said in my rant, fusing over a foreign world doesnt help any. So far, most all this debate has be with non artists or many that dont work in the manga feild. So what if one person calls it manga or another doesnt? The point is if you like it read it, if you dont like it, find something else and go on with your day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yeah, like i said in my rant, fusing over a foreign world doesnt help any. So far, most all this debate has be with non artists or many that dont work in the manga feild. So what if one person calls it manga or another doesnt? The point is if you like it read it, if you dont like it, find something else and go on with your day.</p>
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		<title>By: Melinda Beasi</title>
		<link>http://www.gobblin.net/2009/05/05/that-old-authentic-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-3290</link>
		<dc:creator>Melinda Beasi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 13:47:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gobblin.net/?p=659#comment-3290</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m really glad you brought up the point about longform storytelling.  It&#039;s absolutely what hooked me into manga.  Honestly, I was surprised and dismayed when I attended a panel given by a Tokyopop OEL artist who told us that TP would not even consider an original comic for publication that wasn&#039;t intended to be complete in three volumes. Obviously I can understand their trepidation concerning the market, but I thought at the time that they might be shooting themselves in the foot since imposing a restriction like that automatically rules out the kind of slow-building, epic storytelling that many of us specifically read manga &lt;i&gt;for&lt;/i&gt;.  I don&#039;t want to blame Tokyopop for all of OEL&#039;s ills--that hardly seems fair--but I think it&#039;s unreasonable for anyone to expect the work of OEL creators to stand up against what comes over from Japan when their hands are tied like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m really glad you brought up the point about longform storytelling.  It&#8217;s absolutely what hooked me into manga.  Honestly, I was surprised and dismayed when I attended a panel given by a Tokyopop OEL artist who told us that TP would not even consider an original comic for publication that wasn&#8217;t intended to be complete in three volumes. Obviously I can understand their trepidation concerning the market, but I thought at the time that they might be shooting themselves in the foot since imposing a restriction like that automatically rules out the kind of slow-building, epic storytelling that many of us specifically read manga <i>for</i>.  I don&#8217;t want to blame Tokyopop for all of OEL&#8217;s ills&#8211;that hardly seems fair&#8211;but I think it&#8217;s unreasonable for anyone to expect the work of OEL creators to stand up against what comes over from Japan when their hands are tied like that.</p>
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		<title>By: MangaBlog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; King City rescued!</title>
		<link>http://www.gobblin.net/2009/05/05/that-old-authentic-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-3286</link>
		<dc:creator>MangaBlog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; King City rescued!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 12:14:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gobblin.net/?p=659#comment-3286</guid>
		<description>[...] lesson: Jake Forbes clears up a misconception about the term OEL manga and has an interesting take on the standard manga format as [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] lesson: Jake Forbes clears up a misconception about the term OEL manga and has an interesting take on the standard manga format as [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jake Forbes</title>
		<link>http://www.gobblin.net/2009/05/05/that-old-authentic-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-3279</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake Forbes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 16:24:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gobblin.net/?p=659#comment-3279</guid>
		<description>Fallen,
Well, seeing as I&#039;ve worked in the manga industry for 9 years, I should know! I confess that the only Josei series I really read for enjoyent was Kimi wa Pet. The TV drama is great too!

-J</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fallen,<br />
Well, seeing as I&#8217;ve worked in the manga industry for 9 years, I should know! I confess that the only Josei series I really read for enjoyent was Kimi wa Pet. The TV drama is great too!</p>
<p>-J</p>
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		<title>By: Gobblinize Me!</title>
		<link>http://www.gobblin.net/2009/05/05/that-old-authentic-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-3275</link>
		<dc:creator>Gobblinize Me!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 15:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gobblin.net/?p=659#comment-3275</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t even know half those terms and people call me a manga maniac. Suddenly, though, it doesn&#039;t bother me as much. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t even know half those terms and people call me a manga maniac. Suddenly, though, it doesn&#8217;t bother me as much. <img src='http://www.gobblin.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Fallen Angel Eyes</title>
		<link>http://www.gobblin.net/2009/05/05/that-old-authentic-debate/comment-page-1/#comment-3274</link>
		<dc:creator>Fallen Angel Eyes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 12:28:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gobblin.net/?p=659#comment-3274</guid>
		<description>...Wow, the fact that you are familiar with the term &quot;josei&quot; blows my mind. You, sir, are awesome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;Wow, the fact that you are familiar with the term &#8220;josei&#8221; blows my mind. You, sir, are awesome.</p>
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